E47: The Power of Podcasting with Noelia Sanchez

EPISODE 47

[INTRODUCTION]

[00:00:04] AW: You’re listening to the Transcend the Podcast. I’m your host, Asha Wilkerson, an attorney by training and an educator at heart. This podcast is all about empowering you to build a business and leave a legacy. Here’s the thing, the wealth gap in America is consistently increasing and while full-time entrepreneurship is not for everyone, even a side hustle could change your financial landscape if you’re intentional about using your business to build wealth. I’ve run my own law firm for over 10 years, and in that time, I’ve helped countless California businesses go from idea to six figures. On this podcast, we talk about what it truly takes to build a sustainable business and find financial freedom. Let’s dive in.

[EPISODE]

[00:00:46] AW: All right, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Transcend the Podcast. I am here with Noelia Sanchez of Audio Storytellers. I’m so excited to introduce you to my very own podcast editor, welcome Noelia.

[00:01:00] NS: Thank you. I’m so excited to be here with you, Asha.

[00:01:03] AW: Me too. Me too. We don’t really have a plan or a script for today, which are some of my favorite episodes to record. We talked about a few ideas talking about the importance of podcasting. How do you start podcasting? When do you know it’s the right tool? I promise we will get to all of that. But, can you introduce yourself to my audience real quick?

[00:01:22] NS: Yeah, absolutely. I run a company called Audio Storytellers. We’re a podcast production company. We’re full service, and that we help people start and launch their shows, then also help them keep it running from doing all the audio editing, and then also doing the show notes writing, creating graphics so that you can promote the show. I know we’re going to get into all the different components. But that’s basically it, we help people run and launch their podcast.

[00:01:48] AW: Yes. Noelia and her team are absolutely amazing. I mean, they have made podcasting for me so seamless. One of the things that you said is that you want people to just be able to show up, and talk, and then you handle the rest. That is exactly what happens. I show up, I run my mouth, and then it gets uploaded automatically and then you make magic happen. I so appreciate you for doing that. Let’s talk about, how can people use podcasting as a tool? What is the purpose and how can we use it?

[00:02:15] NS: Yeah, absolutely. I think podcasts are a really great way to connect with your audience. I know that everyone knows, it’s really important for us to put content out there, and for us to be able to share our knowledge and our expertise with our audiences. Podcasting, the audio format in general is a really great way to do this, because it gives us that extra connection in with folks. You all probably have experienced this when you listen to a podcast. You feel like you start to get to know the person personally. If you were to run into them on the street, you’d be like, “Hey, what’s up?” Like you know them, even though, yeah, they have no idea who you are. 

[00:02:51] AW: Yeah, that part.

[00:02:53] NS: Yes, but it’s this really intimate experience of having someone in your ear and listening to you. As a business owner, it’s really important to build those relationships, build those connections with folks. The audio format is a great, great way to do that. I always recommend it to folks, especially also, if you’re kind of the person that likes to talk, that likes have conversations with people. It could become a really easy way for you to get your knowledge out there. Sometimes writing takes too long or doesn’t come naturally to folks or even being on video, on camera sometimes feels like it could be a little bit of a heavy lift. Audio, just gosh, it feels so much more comfortable. You just turn on the microphone, have a conversation, share your knowledge, and it just becomes so much easier for people to just execute and get things done.

[00:03:39] AW: Yeah, absolutely. I do. I think it’s a great way to use your voice. I mean, I have written on this wall, maybe not this wall. Yes. I said, share your voice, because you need to get your voice out there. I think a lot of times getting started, especially as folks of color in some of these more predominantly white spaces, it’s hard to feel confident in that way. But being able to use a microphone where the stakes are pretty low, you can edit if you don’t like something that you’ve said, you can control the narrative, you can control the story and the content. I think podcasting is a great way to do that. Now, how do you know that you’re ready for a podcast? How would someone assess that now is the right time to start?

[00:04:20] NS: Yeah. I think podcast is a really great mechanism for people to get their information out about what they do in their businesses. The thing that I would say that, it is a bit of an investment. You’ve got to either invest your time or your money into the production element. If you want it to be not too expensive for you, if you don’t have to shell out a lot of money for production and work with outside production company, then you’re going to spend a lot of time learning the skills to do the editing, to do the distribution, to create all the graphics and things that you need. There’s going to be a lot of energy that you’ll have to do if you want to do it on your own.

These are the things that I tell people to keep in mind. If you have the time, and the desire to learn all the skills, then excellent, you should totally take it on really your own. But in terms of your business, you’re going to want to make sure that you have an offer that is out there and that is converting and that you’re confident in. Otherwise, the effort that you expend in getting the podcast going, is going to start to feel like, what’s the return I’m getting on this. It’s not really working. I usually tell folks, make sure that you have a really strong offer that you’re confident in that converts, because then, this audio podcast is content that you’re putting out there is going to attract people, and it’s going to draw people in to that offer.

Then, it’s going to support what you’re already doing, what’s already working and it’s going to make that go so much faster. For folks who are just starting out, that you’re just barely figuring out what your offer is, you’re playing around with different ideas, different audiences, trying to figure out what works, getting that customer product fit. Then I’d say, focus more on that, focus on getting that clarity on that you have the right offer for the right customer before you dive into something like podcasting. Only because it does require a lot of time, and effort and cost if you end up outsourcing it.

[00:06:15] AW: Right. Yeah, definitely. I like that. Some of the reasons why someone might start a podcast is to help share their offer, the thing that they’re already doing that’s already working, or to amplify their voice to get some credibility. How important is it do you think for us as people of color, entrepreneurs of color to really build that credibility using our own voices?

[00:06:35] NS: Yes, absolutely. That’s such a great question. Because there’s a few different angles that you can look at podcasts for. What I was just kind of describing is the use of a podcast to market something, right? Using it as marketing for your business, but there’s also another side of podcasting, that really is really valuable for a business owner, but also just in general for someone who wants to create more influence and impact in people’s lives and then the world. We work with a lot of nonprofit organizations, a lot of academics that are really focused on that. They’re focused on influence, they’re focused on impact, and their desire to put their content and voice out there is more centered around that. When you create content, and you put it out into the world, it has this exponential effect where people listen to it and people get to know you, and people understand your ideas and can get drawn to those ideas. 

People will see you as an influencer, and not in the sense of like, “Oh! That person on Instagram influencer.” It’s more of creating change, and creating new ideas and influencing decisions. As women of color, there’s this issue of gender bias. We have to unfortunately deal with that when someone sees us or sees our names. They instantly think certain things about us. One of the ways that we can break through that, we can break through some of the bias lenses that people see us through, is by putting some of our content out there for people to get to know us first, before they see us or before they read our names, or their bios, or build ideas around who we are.

Podcasts are a great way to do that. We can put our content out there, put our ideas out there, and people will begin to know us and connect with us better. When we finally get that one-to-one interaction with them, it’s like instant connection, instant brains connecting and ideas generating.

[00:08:27] AW: Because they know you already. 

[00:08:28] NS: Exactly. That’s why I really like recommending folks to do that. Build your personal brand and use a podcast to do it.

[00:08:35] AW: Yeah. That’s a really good point. Because now, whenever I am reaching out to other organizations to say, “Hey! Can we collaborate on a workshop?” Now, I’m putting links to my podcasts, and to my YouTube videos in the email to say, “Hey! This is what I can offer.” But if you want to see me in action, if you want to hear some of the things that I have spoken about, go ahead and click here.” More often than not, they’ll at least click on the YouTube video, but I think a lot of them are also clicking on the podcast link, and adding it to the podcast that they have in rotation already, even if they’re not taking the time to listen to it right there in that time. It sounds like it’s really important to set your own goals for your podcast, because I follow – we all probably follow some really big podcasters in there, got ads coming from every which way, and all these big collaborations, and it looks like they’re making all this money. That is one good way to measure success, but there are also a number of other ways that aren’t going to necessarily lead to an immediate return on the investment in your pocket, which I think are also valuable as well.

[00:09:38] NS: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I’m a big fan of social science research, and I’m always sort of reading about that in human behavior, especially when it comes around issues of diversity, equity and inclusion. There was a study that I found that was really interesting, and it talked about how for women of color, we have to – it’s important for us to reduce the ambiguity around our skills and expertise. Because by doing that, it allows us to then create more influence and impact over the other people if we reduce that ambiguity, right? If someone is not curious or wondering like, “Hmm! Does she know what she’s talking about?” Because unfortunately, that’s what happens. right? They see us, see your names and they start to question everything about us. We have to over prove ourselves about things. The more we can reduce that ambiguity, and using content, putting it out there allows us to do that. You’re demonstrating your expertise; you’re demonstrating everything you know.

[00:10:31] AW: Yeah, that’s like such a – I feel like my brain just kind of exploded a little bit. Because of the language and the framing of that, reduce the ambiguity. The other side of that, frame it in a positive is be clear about what you do and who you serve. I feel like oftentimes, for women, for just anybody who’s in the minority in whatever sense of it is, but especially women, and especially women of color. We are taught not to take up too much space. We are taught not to brag, not to be too loud, right to be humble, to let things come to us. But based on the social science, and also, of course, what we know in marketing is that you can’t do all of those things, you have to reduce the ambiguity, you need to be clear about what it is and who you serve. 

Men seem to have a very easy time being direct. I feel like, women, a lot of times, we want to be polite, and polite oftentimes lends to not being as direct because we don’t want to hurt somebody’s feelings or come across as stepping on a social norm in some kind of a way.

[00:11:31] NS: Yes. So true. So true. It all sort of falls in line, like what you were just sort of saying there too of like, how do we then measure the success of a podcast when we’re leveraging it in this way? Right? We’re hoping to improve our credibility, we’re hoping to demonstrate our authority in a specific space. How do we then go about measuring that? The answer to that is, there’s many different ways to measure it. Some of the folks that we talked to is, their goal is to be able to have more influence and impact. That’s measured through the invitations that they get to speak at conferences, it’s measured through the media outreach that happens for them.

As a result of being able to do things like you mentioned, that simple act of putting their podcast link in an email, then can extend into so many other opportunities. It just kind of grows from there. That’s another important thing to understand, is that there’s this brand lift that happens, and that happens for the individual, not only them, but also – well, not only the business, but also the individual themselves. I’m sure you talk to your folks about exiting their businesses eventually. You might sell your business, but your voice and your podcast, it’s still a value to you, no matter what you end up doing next. 

[00:12:52] AW: Right. Absolutely. It lasts until you take it off the internet or until you take it off the podcast players. I’ve been in a couple of different groups, and one lady was saying that she’ll do podcasts for a period of time. I also want to talk about how long you should do it. But she said, she had two kids pretty close together, her husband was deployed and things just got busy. She stopped doing one of the podcasts. That’s been about four or five years ago. She said, people are still finding those podcasts, but she never took them down. They’re still asking about offers in there that she had made, that were running four or five years ago, and now she’s doing something completely different. When we put stuff out there into this universe, it has a shelf life, it has longevity. It’s not just when you’re doing it in for the week after. It can last for a while too.

[00:13:39] NS: Yes, absolutely. That’s something else too that I think is another really great reason why you want to do something like an audio format, video even. Of course, blogs function in this way. Is that it does have that ability to turn it on. If you create a great piece of content that provides value, like really answers a question for somebody, people are going to be looking for the answer to that question for a long time. Not just right now, but for years to come. People are going to still have that question. The potential of you being able to show up in their search results as a podcast episode, as a blog post, as a video piece of content is so powerful. If you compare that to something like posting it on social media, the feed goes so fast and it gets buried. Once it’s gone, it’s gone. But this is content that stays there, that you can, like she mentioned. That’s a very real strategy that some people take is to create a series on a specific topic area, answers a very specific question. A little series of maybe six episodes really set and it just stays there. It has beginning and end, and it’s valuable, and evergreen and people will always find it.

[00:14:47] AW: Yeah. That was actually going to be one of my next questions, was about this longevity thing. I remember before I had thought about doing a – well, this is my second podcast. First one, I was editing myself and putting everything up there. I think I got through like six episodes, and life got busy, and I got tons of work. Then, one of the things I was thinking about before I embarked on Transcend the Podcast was, “Okay. If I’m going to do it, am I going to be able to carve out enough time to be able to do it and to be consistent?” I hadn’t thought about these mini blocks of episodes, but there are different ways to show up. Can you talk about some of the different ways that people choose to do podcasting from miniseries, to know videos, to forever and ever and ever? Are there other options that are out there as well?

[00:15:30] NS: Yeah, that’s the beauty of podcasting, and content creation in general is that there are no rules. There’s no one that has to approve the way that we do things. This is the beauty of it, and also a little bit of the drawback, right, because we have to make those decisions for ourselves on what makes sense. But I love it for that reason, and that we can decide how we want to produce content so that it fits with our lives and our vision of what a sustainable business looks like. With podcasts, what’s kind of the most common way that you hear a podcast format is the weekly show where you have two people having a conversation. People are most familiar, I’d say with that kind of style, then there’s also sort of the narrative podcasts that are storytelling pieces, like cereal, or something like that, where they are covering the whole story, you’re listening to each episode, because you want to hear what the next one is like. Very much like a TV show almost. Yeah, those are just a couple of the different formats.

But there’s also those little short miniseries that people do, and I see that quite popular, I would say, within kind of the leadership space. Often, there’s folks that talk and do these little series like that. In the academic space, they do series, so they feel very kind of almost like little mini courses, like you’re learning on a very specific topic. The episodes are short, sweet, they all kind of build on each other, but they’re great for I think, for a business owner to leverage that format. That’s a great opportunity I think for people because it can be very specific to the problem or issue you solve with your business; people will find it. Then if you have really well-placed CTAs call to action, you can move them into your sales funnel, have a natural next step for people off of any of these formats to be able to move them into your business.

[00:17:13] AW: Definitely. One of the things that I’ve noticed just observing about my own life, if I go for a walk, if I – mostly when I go for a walk, sometimes when I go to the gym, if I’m driving, I’m listening to a podcast. It might be some music, but more often than not, that’s when I’m listening to a podcast. When people send me, there’s a very specific type of person I think that looks at YouTube, the videos. A lot of people look at videos, I am not – I don’t do it. I have not paid for YouTube. If I close or tell my screen to go off, YouTube stops playing. For me, because of the way that my schedule moves, podcasts, and the audio is so useful for me. I think that’s one way that you can reach people, especially with a miniseries. I’ve seen people that will do maybe their webinar series, they record the audio, they put it on a podcast series and that is able to tap into a different audience that may not have the time or may not want to sit down and watch the video, but still wants the content.

[00:18:08] NS: Yeah, definitely. Podcasting is probably one of the only ones that is truly multitasking, because you can have your earbuds in, your hands are free, your feet are free, you can do whatever it is that you want. A video, even though in theory, it can also be kind of multitasking. But the idea with the video is that you’re really sitting down and watching it, like your eyes should be busy. A well-done video is going to capture your attention, and you’re going to want to watch it right. Podcasting is great for that reason that it truly is multitasking. If you really think about your audience, some audiences are better built for one type of content than another. But I would say that every, every audience has opportunities within all the spaces. Eventually, you want to get to the point where you’re able to create in all these different formats or different mediums. But if you’re think about your audience, and you think of them, like perhaps your audience is really made up of a lot of mothers, and mothers need to be multitasking. They’re busy, they’re doing a lot of things. If you know that about them, then create content in a way that’s going to be helpful. Why are you going to make a bunch of videos with you just as a talking head, making them want to talk when you can just make it an audio format? And they can go about their day doing their thing and still feel connected to you because listening is just as good. Listening is just as good.

[00:19:24] AW: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. It seems like there – like you said earlier, there aren’t really any rules. There are some rules, but you also get to make up a lot of the rules that you want. Being able to look at podcasting, or any audio, video, whatever marketing tool and thinking about how it’s going to work best for you, I think it sounds like that’s really the key, deciding what it is that you want to do.

[00:19:46] NS: Definitely. You and I get the opportunity to talk about a lot of different approaches, and strategies to like how to create content. There’s something that, initially. I think that happens at the very beginning and I’m trying to remember. I don’t think you ever had this mindset block, but some folks struggle at the very beginning when they’re creating their shows of, what do I have to contribute that’s actually new and helpful? What do I have to say? What do I bring to the conversation? Is anyone going to listen? I really think that it’s a hurdle that we have to all get over, I think. It’s a piece of putting yourself out there, like really amplifying your own voice, and being comfortable with that and getting over the self-conscious part of it. But it’s so important, because that’s the beauty of this, is that we all bring something to the table. We’re all unique, we all have this unique perspective that is so valuable to the world.

Right now, I think as women of color, we have a really unique perspective that is missing from many conversations. This is our chance to sort of step up, and step into it and really own that that individual experience and expertise. We might all have the same – there’s other lawyers out there. There are other editors out there, but they didn’t grow up, they didn’t experience, they didn’t do, they didn’t – all of it is different and we bring that.

[00:21:04] AW: Right. That was the question that I was going to ask you, about what some of the mindset blocks are that people have. But as you were talking about that, and I go through this now sometimes too, especially now that it’s been almost a year. I’m like, “Well, gosh, what can I talk about next, because sometimes you feel like you have to be brand new, create a brand-new methodology or something like that. But that’s not necessarily true. One, you’re right, you’re unique, just like everyone else, but you’re unique, right? The way that you say something or speak about something will resonate with the people who are meant to find you. I think about I had a traveler, Charlie, their Instagram handle @travelercharlie on the podcast a couple of weeks ago or a couple of episodes back. They said that they started investing, because they had met, I think it was a Chinese woman, maybe he was talking about 401(k). It was the same stuff that the white cis man was saying, but they just couldn’t – it’s just, the presentation and the package, it just didn’t penetrate the mind, the walls, the whatever. Because automatically, we just aren’t gravitating towards certain people. Because whatever we believe about our commonalities, or assumptions or things like that.

This lady who was still talking about investing in 401(k), is the same stuff that you could find from anybody else. But because it was her, because she was who she was, then Charlie was able to receive it and that got them started on their investing journey. I think also about, Dave Ramsey, and how Dave Ramsey has built this huge platform. Then I hear other financial people are like, “Whatever, Dave Ramsey is not saying anything unique.” He’s just saying it over, and over and over again. Talking about God in there somewhere.” And the principles, the investing principles of the financial literacy principles are the same, and the same principles that everybody’s talking about. You just find the person that you connect with. If you’re wondering what you need to say, or how are you going to be unique, you’re already different, you’re already unique. You don’t have to say something brand new, or novel or shocking, just say it, just say it how you would say it, so the people who are looking for you can hear it and get the information.

[00:23:11] NS: So true. So true. I love that so much. It’s exactly the thing that we’re hoping to do, is really help people from diverse backgrounds, really step into their power of being able to share that knowledge and expertise that is unique to them. It’s that whole idea, like representation matters. Right? We need to see ourselves in the people that we are connecting with. and learning from and in investing our money in. It’s so easy for us to get lost in the shuffle and think that we need to go about our business, and keep our head down. We’re trained into this idea of like, just do good work and people will find you. But that’s not always the case, like we got to be willing to put ourselves out there too. 

[00:23:52] AW: Absolutely. Part of that it is definitely like a holdover from, I think, from slavery, and just from our marginalized position in the US. Because from – there’s a book called Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. I have not actually read the book yet, full disclosure, but I have looked at a couple of videos from the author describing what has happened. But also, we know that you couldn’t stand out, you didn’t want to stand out. Because if you stood out because you were a bad worker, then you’d be in trouble and physically punished or something like that. If you stood up because you were a good worker, then you would be in trouble because now, they might want to sell you and take you away from your family. I think we have developed this psychology of like, let me just put my head down and get the job done. Don’t stand out too much, whether it’s good or bad. Because either way, if it’s good or bad, that’s a threat to my security and my safety.

That’s something that I don’t think we probably don’t even know, but I guarantee that that is held over from generations of people trying to make it into that point in time. It was really good advice in some situations that may be decent advice. But if you are really trying to build your business, and put your voice and your brand out there, then can’t be middle of the road, you got to go for it.

[00:25:06] NS: Oh, yeah. It’s like having to examine all of that and dig deeper to understand what is it that’s actually holding me back from putting my voice out there and saying something/ Where’s that fear coming from and understanding that there could be generational trauma that we’re processing still is so empowering and so eye opening. Because then, you have the courage to go beyond, “Oh! I’m just afraid. I’m just afraid of what people will think.” That’s just surface. That’s not even it. But when we dig deeper, and we really understand it, and work through it, then we come out on the other side of that, with so much more conviction to do a good job.

[00:25:44] AW: Right? Exactly. It’s you just got to get curious and see, “Well, where does this fear come from?” and just keep asking questions like, “Where does it come from, and where does that come from or where does that come from?” I always hear from people all the time who are – maybe not all the time, but on multiple occasions, people who are not feeling well. They keep going to the doctor and they don’t have a diagnosis. Once you get a diagnosis, it’s so helpful, because then you know how to address that problem. If you’re feeling like, “Oh, I’m just scared to do it,” is like having a problem and not having a diagnosis. But if you can get curious about where this fear comes from, then you can hone down and get a diagnosis, understand it and then work on that situation or that belief to be able to open up the world before you.

[00:26:24] NS: So true. So true. Yes, there’s times that I run into folks that want to start their shows. We get so deep into the planning process, we design the whole thing, we come up with this awesome content and concept ideas, everything. We go through the whole process of planning it all. Then we get to the point of recording, when they got to actually push the button and start talking into the mic. I don’t know, something happens, and they get cold feet. All of a sudden, it’s this hard thing that they don’t have time for anymore. It’s really those mental hurdles to get over. Sometimes I can really help people through it, give them the tools and the advice, but oftentimes, it’s that personal journey that people have to walk before they feel comfortable pressing record.

[00:27:09] AW: Yep. Yep, absolutely. I think that there’s a couple of things I’m thinking of. Like one, Beyond the Big Leap right by Gay Hendricks talks about working in your zone of genius, and your zone of genius is doing the things that are easy for you, and fun for you, because it doesn’t feel like work. Most of us are in our zone of excellence where things are moderately easy, and we’re pretty good at them and we’re producing. But I’m thinking about that push beyond your comfort zone, or really your familiar zone versus something that is not for you. Some people are really – I can turn on a microphone, I can turn on a video and words just come out. I’ll hear the recording and I’m like, “I said that?” It’s just something that is so easy for me. I don’t know whether it’s good or not. I don’t have a lot of fear around that, but I know other folks are terrified of speaking in public or having their voice recorded. 

I think it’s important to really analyze, is this unfamiliar, and that’s where the discomfort is coming from? Or is this like, terrifying, and this is not how I can best show up, right? Because you also don’t want to put something out there, where you’re not at your best or not – where it becomes an inaccurate representation of you. I’m not going to, I don’t know, go do some extreme sports and try and pretend like I’m going to be an infant. I’m terrified of heights. I don’t like going that fast. Control is good thing for me, so I’m never going to try and be some influencer that’s doing all these crazy things. That’s not me. But I can turn on a video camera or talk in front of a group of people and that’s like, no problem. What do you think about pushing past that comfort zone versus, or in addition to looking at what you’re actually really good at?

[00:28:44] NS: Yeah, this is an interesting one too. Like I mentioned earlier, one of my hobbies is like human behavior studies and research, that kind of stuff. An area that I’m really fascinated by is personality research. Something I learned in there that was just so helpful once I kind of adopted it, and kind of really used it, and thinking about it in the way that I do things in my professional life, like how do you create success is sort of related to this, in that it talks about how – we all sort of know that there’s elements of our personality that are – we can discover these things. People know many of the assessments out there, like the Myers Briggs, the Big Five, there’s several of them out there. They’re all whittled down to the social science research that kind of birth all of those different assessments. Within that research, there’s also something called the free trade theory. The idea of that is that, all these different elements of our personality, there’s different facets to them, but that us as human beings, we have the capability to dial them up and dial them down depending on the situation. 

As fixed as some of these personality traits might feel, as humans, we’re complex human beings, and we probably have experienced this ourselves. If you think about areas of your life where maybe you’re uncomfortable, but you know that you have to be a certain way to be able to succeed in that space, you’re able to navigate it. You learn to navigate it. This is not a detriment, this is a great thing, this is a good thing that we can learn to leverage as a tool. This is an example of that. Being on the mic, something that takes a little bit more of the extraversion personality type. Somebody might be a little bit more introverted. But if you know the value that it brings, then you can intentionally dial that element of your personality to be able to succeed in that space, and make a choice to do that, right?

The same way as an extrovert can intentionally dial it down if they want to succeed and navigate this specific environment. Right. Yeah, that’s something I tell folks and other people who are sort of into personality stuff. It’s like, don’t let that stuff hold you back and don’t think that it’s fixed, because it’s not. We’re complex human beings. We can do a lot of things.

[00:30:57] AW: Absolutely, yeah. It also kind of sucks to be a beginner again, or at least for me, I hate being a beginner again. Because even though I like learning new stuff, but it’s hard for me when I’m bad at something, or when I’m bad at something that I think that I should be good at. One of my friends started a YouTube channel a few years ago, and his friend has built up his channel, and does this a lot, and he’s pretty good at it. He told my friend, he was like, “Look, just suck at first. Pull out the camera, plug in the microphone, interview some people, you’re going to suck and that’s okay. It takes a number of repetitions. By the time you have 10,15, 20, you are going to be much better than where you were when you started.” My friend, a guy was like, “All right, cool.” He had no problem knowing that he was not going to be good in the beginning. It was almost shocking to me in a sense, because I have this – I carry this strong fear of messing up and of doing something that’s going to ruin my reputation. 

It is really uncomfortable for me to be bad at something that I feel like I should be good at, right? Even though I love the process of learning and acquiring a new skill. There are different ways to build up that competence, and that skill level without necessarily putting it in public right away. But also speaking to myself, anyone else who is similar, it’s okay to not be that great when you start and it’s okay to get better over time. We don’t have to hit a home run, our first at bat on a podcast or whatever it is that we’re doing public speaking or whatever when we put ourselves out there.

[00:32:41] NS: Oh gosh! So true. Yeah. That’s one of the main reasons why people don’t continue on with podcasts, is because they hit a certain point, or they start out and they don’t get to the point where they feel like it is good, and what they perceive as a good show. Then they quit, and it’s often because they didn’t give themselves the time to progress to become the quality that they like. A really famous podcast that’s out there, This American Life. Ira Glass, who is the host of that. She has a wonderful quote that sort of talks about this specific thing, where it’s really not just for podcasters either. It’s creatives in general, anyone creating something new is – I’m going to butcher this, but definitely go and Google his cool thing that he talks about this. But he talks about how, as creatives, we have really high taste. We know what is good. We can tell something that is really on point, that is something that is just like beginner, amateur-ish.

Our desire to create something is driven by that high-taste quality that we have. We know what’s good, so we’re going to want to create something that’s just as amazing and awesome. Then we turn on the mic, or we try to make something and then it’s not that. Like you said, we got to be cool with just – it’s sucking efforts, because it’s going to. Because we’re so, like have such high taste quality, we know that it sucks and that’s painful. That’s a painful reality to sit in. Yeah. We got to be able to sit in that discomfort of creating something that is not to our standard, because it’s through that repetition of creation, through that experience of action that we eventually get to our standard. But we got to get there and that’s the hard part, is working our way through it and getting to that point. Oh, so good. So good. But it’s tough, for sure.

[00:34:28] AW: Yeah. I feel like that was affirming for me too. I was just listening to a book on tape between – a really short book between last night and this morning. See, lots of audio stuff going on in my world, right? So make that podcast and share your voice. But it was talking about, it was from a sales guy and it was talking about the perspective of – instead of trying to say – instead of setting a goal for the numbers of yeses that you want to get, set a goal for the number of noes that you’re going to get. Because you become almost desensitized to the rejection, but also, you learn about why people that are saying no and you want to fail quickly and fail often, because that’s going to point you in the right direction of what’s going to work. It’s about flipping that perspective, because most of us feel like failure. Having a failure in a moment in time does not mean you are a failure as a person. It means that there is something to tweak, and something to do better. But being comfortable with getting that feedback, like let me try this and mess it up, because then, I’m going to get closer to figuring out what’s right.

As opposed to thinking like, I often do, let me hit it out of the park. But first, let me get it right the first time, which is probably never happens or hardly happens for anybody. Then when you are afraid to mess up, like I sometimes I’m really afraid to mess up, I don’t try or I limit what I’m willing to try because I’m afraid to mess up. But if I switch my perspective, which I’m working on doing right now, to think about, how can I – how can I figure out faster what doesn’t work so I can get to what does work? That failure, but with the lens of, it’s an opportunity to learn and to grow. It’s just not getting it right the first time so much easier. I am inviting that feedback instead of being afraid of that feedback. 

Thinking about if you’re listening and are afraid that maybe my voice sounds funnier. What am I going to talk about, or maybe I’m not going to be as good as some of these other folks. You’re probably not if you’re just starting out. You’re not going to be as competent in whatever other area you have mastered, because you don’t have the same amount of time. It’s something new. But what about looking at this journey, this experience as an opportunity to get feedback to figure out what doesn’t work first, so you can figure out what does work next.

[00:36:35] NS: Yeah, yeah. I love to tell people that this creation process, this making a podcast is very much a creative process. The creative process in general is one of discovery and experimentation. You have to try different things, and through that trying and experimenting, there’s something magical that starts to happen, is that you start to develop your own style, your own voice, your own curiosity about what it is that you’re talking about that’s unique and different. But that only happens through the creation. You have to experiment with the words, you have to experiment with the format, with the questions that you ask, with the podcast. Some people may even want to experiment with doing narratives, right? There are business books out there that are written as parables. Why can’t the podcast, business podcasts be done the same way. There are so many different things that you can try and it’s all through that creative discovery and creative experimentation that you have to give yourself space to do. It doesn’t just magically happen, and there’s no recipe. Like we said before, there’s no rules. There’s no exact way that you can do things. 

That’s how that’s how these big creative shows happen. The ones that really do get the 1000s of downloads, it’s because they’re creative in the way that they approach things. If you just follow the cookie cutter format that everybody else does, it’s just going to be boring and not interesting. Who’s going to want to listen to the same thing that’s already out there? What can you bring that’s unique? And you got to give yourself the space to discover what that is.

[00:38:18] AW: Yeah, for sure. The most important thing is that you have fun doing it, because my friend told me – this is probably a year ago when I was still fighting with social media, like I’m not a big fan of posting stuff. She was like, “Were you upset when you made this video?” I was like, “Yeah, I didn’t want to do it.” She’s like, “Yeah, we could tell.” I’m like, “Oh, okay. Okay. Right.” Thinking about being in that creation mode when you’re feeling like it, and when you’re excited about what it is that you’re doing, and giving yourself that space and grace, just to put it out there and to see what happens with some direction, but without the criticism that so often occurs or happens in the minds of us high achieving, folks, and we’ve got goals, we’re trying to hit them. Oftentimes, we’re not giving ourselves the space and grace to try something new and see what happens.

[00:39:02] NS: Yes, absolutely. That’s what this is, this is for us. This is – you create it for yourself first, and then you’re going to be able to make something that’s going to be valuable for other people. People can totally tell if you’re not into it.

[00:39:14] AW: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Noelia, this has been awesome. I have totally enjoyed our impromptu off the cuff conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me on this episode. Now, if we have convinced people to start a podcast or to look into creating a podcast, what is the best way that they can get in contact with you?

[00:39:34] NS: Yeah. Go check out our website. I hope this definitely inspired you to consider using the audio format and what you’re doing. It’s audiostorytellers.com and you can read more about our services there. You can book a call with me and we can chit chat about your ideas. Love to just hear in know more about you.

[00:39:53] AW: Awesome. Thank you so much. All right, everyone. Until the next episode. Take care.

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